You are a very respected person in American politics, in the Afro-American community. You were mayor of Trenton. You are a former president of the US Conference of Mayors. Why have you decided to get involved in this issue?
First of all, it's about relationships. I have a very good relationship with Eric Lubaczewski, who works with the Polish government in the chamber of commerce. We're friends. Our children go to high school together. Also, as a former mayor, I certainly know Mayor Steven Fulop. As a matter of fact, my wife and I were early supporters of his and I have seen his star rise. He is an outstanding leader, not just in Jersey City, but nationally.
When I read about the controversy as relates to the statue, I could actually see both sides of the issue. So I reached out to my good friend Eric, and he asked [for] my help to see if there are ways in which, because of my relationship with Mayor Fulop, we can come to a resolution of this issue. So I was more than willing to help because I think this is an important issue and I also don't want to see it blown out of proportion, where there are hurt feelings and people dig in a position where they can't get out of.
Can you tell me more about your relationship with the Polish community in Trenton? You were the mayor of Trenton for more than 20 years.
I was very blessed to be [mayor] of my hometown, Trenton, New Jersey, for 20 years. Trenton is a wonderful, very diverse community, with African Americans, Latinos, Asians, Italians, Irish ... and of course the Polish community. I was very happy that the Polish community welcomed me as their mayor and not as an African American mayor but as their mayor. And because of a strong relationship I had with them, even going back to my Mercer County freeholder days and working with the Polish Democrats in Trenton, they honoured me by asking me to travel with them to Philadelphia, by bus from Trenton, to celebrate Pulaski Day and the Pulaski Day Parade which was in Philadelphia. It was an honour for me, so every year in October I'd get on a bus, we'd have fun, we'd march through the parades in Philly and I felt very welcome. I was very amazed at how many thousands of people came out, not just Polish people, but came out celebrating the Pulaski Day Parade. So I've always enjoyed a very good relationship with the Polish community, that still exists to this day.
So you know the Polish community, but as you said, you also know Mayor Fulop. What can you say about him?
Mayor Fulop is one of the nation's great mayors. Not just in New Jersey. He is innovative, he gets things done. He is a very caring and compassionate person and a very tough person. A person that will stand up for his citizens and take on any issue or challenge that he believes strongly in. I know that he's a very reasonable person and he's shown that by his willingness to reach out to the Polish government in Poland and here locally to try to have dialogue. He wants to communicate, to hear both sides... and to come up with a reasonable approach as relates to this. So he's a person that is pragmatic, reasonable and willing to talk and I know that that's the kind of mayor he is and that's the kind of person he is.
How do you see the chances for resolving the issue, knowing both sides of the controversy?
I think the chances are good. I'm very optimistic because the Polish government is taking a reasonable approach of wanting to engage and talk and dialogue, and so is Mayor Fulop. And I think it's a process. So you have to go through the process. The first step is to begin talking, which is happening now. I know there is a meeting that is going to be set up with the mayor and Polish officials very soon. I think that's a positive step. I wouldn't rush the process. You can't in my opinion just say: “Well this is what we want at the end.” You have to go through the process and work and get there. And so I'm optimistic that the process has begun in a very good way and I think if it is starting in a good way, with mutual respect and a desire to get this resolved in a way that is a win for everyone, is a right step. I know that is what is happening.
How do you see the chances of leaving the statue where it is right now? That is what the Polish community wants.
I really couldn't answer that. Certainly, as I said, there is a process. When both sides can talk and listen to others and to what this issue is about, then we'll see. I do not know if it is going to stay there, if it will or if it won't. I just know that it's a process and I'm optimistic than when both sides are talking, good things will result.
What would you do if you were the mayor of Jersey City? How would you balance progress with history in this issue?
More and more, mayors are faced with a changing city. Whether it’s changing demographics, whether it is more millennials coming into the city – because more people now are moving back into cities – there is always a balancing act that any mayor has with what to do with strengthening neighbourhoods, the issues of gentrification, how to create parks and open space. So it's a balancing act and the first step is to bring all sides together to explain your position and try to work on ways in which you can have a community that is vibrant, that recognises history, that creates open space and is welcoming to everyone, so it is a balancing act. However, I do believe, looking at Mayor Fulop and his track record, that he certainly has the attributes to do all this because he has been doing it and this issue of the statue gives him the opportunity to again listen to all sides and come up with a decision that is in the best interest of everyone.
I'm hearing opinions that his willingness to talk, that his openness to different resolutions of the problem is a sign of weakness. That it's because of protests, of pressure. What's your opinion about it? How do you see his openness?
No, that's a strength. I think it is always a strength when we have people that want to listen to both sides and not be so opinionated or bull-headed or stubborn that they are just going to do what they want to do. I think a strong person listens to both sides and a strong person also will say “I look at it differently now, because of facts.” That takes strength. Weakness is when people are so caught up in their own ego and in their own position that they are afraid that they will be criticised. I think Mayor Fulop is strong, a person that has a strong character.
But how politically strong is Mayor Fulop? You know politics in New Jersey, in Trenton, in the United States.
Well, Mayor Fulop is a leader. I do not look at him as a politician. More as a statesman and as a CEO of a major American city who has to make tough decisions, each and every day. Certainly, decisions have some politics in them and you have to look at the political aspect as well. But I know he is going to look at every aspect, and come up with the right decision that he certainly can support.
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Listen to the interview here.